Curse

Enix · Jun 12, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

We're currently exploring ways in which we can use technology to collect feedback in a more intelligent and visible way. If you have any suggestions, please let us know.

http://www.surveymonkey.com?

Or perhaps solicit some tech from Valve , as they frequently do hardware surveys, which require some user response, for their Steam clients.

Or perhaps host an ingame community event where people can voice their resounding oppinion that Ursan Wars has some "issues".

Nessar · Jun 12, 2008, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Great post and /signed

Red Sonya · Jun 12, 2008, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

a lot of people are going to tell me 'Leave the devs alone, they're doing what's good for the game'. Short answer folks, no, because this is not good for the game.

Only your mere opinion and not the opinion of the MAJORITY. There are more that dont' come to forums who are enjoying the changes and separations of pve from pvp. Anet is making changes on the WHOLE not just your silly website whiners corner. They have the data of the WHOLE community and once again not just silly whinning websites opinions. They see how many are playing and playing with what skills and I'm pretty sure their data can produce them any information they want to know about how much the community is playing and what they are playing and where, things you can't possibly have ANY substantial information on except your own experiences and a handful of your friends or associates.

So I'll say it again "'Leave the devs alone, they're doing what's good for the game'."

I'm bored with PVE not because of the changes of making it EASIER, but, only because I've played the content and I've played it again an again and I just don't wish to play it anymore. It was definitely fun an entertaining while it lasted from day one to the final day I put my time into it. I certainly didn't mind them making it easier for EVERYONE to get to and enjoy the places I experienced or get the loot I got. I just find that most that complain about the NEW & IMPROVED GW are just selfish and self centered because everyone can certainly make the game as hard as they want and now as easy as they want. There's choices for everyone, it's just that some want everyone to play like they do or the same way they do and that's what Anet fixed/changed....now everyone has choices.

garethporlest18 · Jun 12, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Only your mere opinion and not the opinion of the MAJORITY. There are more that dont' come to forums who are enjoying the changes and separations of pve from pvp. Anet is making changes on the WHOLE not just your silly website whiners corner. They have the data of the WHOLE community and once again not just silly whinning websites opinions. They see how many are playing and playing with what skills and I'm pretty sure their data can produce them any information they want to know about how much the community is playing and what they are playing and where, things you can't possibly have ANY substantial information on except your own experiences and a handful of your friends or associates.

Haha you have no idea what the majority is either. I talk to many people in game since all I do is chat when I log on, and I find many people who aren't happy with what the game has become. Sure players who've joined in the past year might not mind as much, but that's because the game is okay how it is now. But it could have been so much better, and some of us Vets just want to know why ANet decided to change their outlook from making a StarCraft type awesome game, to a generic PvE game.

To top it off, all PvE is now is a vanity/title game. That's ALL you do in this game, or all I see anyone do. I can tell you from playing as much as I do that the minority are the people who log on to play missions and help others. That gets extremely boring after the first 2 months. PvE would have always been like that though, there's nothing Anet can do about it. Maybe change the mobs here and there but I'd still be bored, depends on the certain person.

DarkNecrid · Jun 12, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

I'm bored with PVE not because of the changes of making it EASIER, but, only because I've played the content and I've played it again an again and I just don't wish to play it anymore.

So quick question:

Why is it a good idea to make it easier for everyone to play through the content again til they get bored, wouldn't you agree it'd be better to make it normal and not fast so people can play longer til GW2?

:hmmm:

edit:
thisis mostly why i started playing PvP anyways. it's the only thing left untouched by COMPLETELY GAME BREAKING decisions.

(thank god)

thiagobnu · Jun 12, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

As you admitted, one of the things ArenaNet needs to do is try and please everyone.

Dont do that.
If you do that .... you are going to destroy this, once, great game.

---------//---------

Whats the point in having classes, if you can turn into a bear and win all areas of GW. No strategy at all.
Dont make the game easier .... if there is no challenge, why am i gonna continue playing GW ?

Tyla · Jun 12, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Only your mere opinion and not the opinion of the MAJORITY.

And what about the game itself? What does that think?

This game used to be unique, different and competetive.
It was also skill based, and it didn't base your potential on grind.

Ever since the game was diverted by it's producers, the game lost what was unique to it, and it went downhill because it was diverted from being a skill > time game, to being a time > skill game.

evilseabass · Jun 12, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Another point you made is regarding the collection and organization of community feedback. The design team does regularly consult with and solicits feedback from experienced and knowledgable players. I and other members of the team are accessible through our wiki pages and through PMs on the forums as well. I and the other members of the community team have been communicating with players through email, forum PMs, in-game, on the wiki, and in the forums at large. However these discussions are dispersed through many different mediums and there is no single, unified place where feedback is visibly given and read.

Forums can be a great place for discussion, they are not necessarily the best place for organizing feedback in such a way that people (players and devs) can easily find it, search for suggestions that are the most popular, or figure out which pieces of feedback rank highly in terms of importance to the community.

We're currently exploring ways in which we can use technology to collect feedback in a more intelligent and visible way. If you have any suggestions, please let us know.

These portions of Regina's response crack me up the most because it is BS. Its a cop-out, an evasion...an excuse.

The problem of finding, reading, sorting through all the issues, problems, and feedback of the community would be solved if ANet would simply run their own official forum. By relying on so many separate community forums rather than one single official forum, they have created this problem for themselves.

You want a suggestion for improving it, Regina? Here's one: Create an official Arenanet-managed forum. Ta da!

Longasc · Jun 12, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

We know what will happen:

ANet will not get what Avarre is talking about.

And give us one more title track to appease the community!
The new community, that never experienced GW where grind was not the game and title hunt and bears did not exist.

The irony is that WoW will probably feature something similar to titles in WOTLK, which makes me sad.

Lopezus · Jun 12, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

I listened to this live when it happened and it is as epic now as it was back then. People need to understand that Guild Wars had the potential to be in this category, but all the changes made to the game have killed that potential. I think this is truly the major tragedy of Guild Wars.

And i say that from the moment GW turned out to be succesful PvE mmorpg, these expectations couldn't be met. Look in pvp department you can have succesful game like chess that don't require new content and is considered balanced for like 2500 years. That doesn't cut for pve, to keep people playing the game, the new content is vital and the more new content, the more game loses balance as you know it. Even if devs were all-knowing beings, the task of keeping game balanced and feeding it with new content could not be succesful. So they were adressing some issues here or there, fixing some things and sometimes creating more distress but after a while seeing that after all game is still rolling forword they left it as it is. All i'm saying that demanding that devs right now admit that they have failed at creating perfect game and only are only succesful at making great to medicore game is a bit unreasonable.

pumpkin pie · Jun 12, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilseabass

You want a suggestion for improving it, Regina? Here's one: Create an official Arenanet-managed forum. Ta da!

I agree with this. There should be an official Arena Net Managed forum. moderated by Arena Net community manager(S) that is neutral. no ursan lover of ursan haters

Bryant Again · Jun 12, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Only your mere opinion and not the opinion of the MAJORITY...

I'll give you credit in saying that his opinion is not that of the majority, but for two reasons: 1. The majority does not have as much time and understanding invested into the game, and 2. The majority just doesn't care - not about his opinion, but everything in general. They don't care about nerfs, buffs, new end-game content, new weapons, elite armor, nothing.

The majority of players care only about one thing: their current task. The "casual" player is the player that is focused on and enjoying what they are doing right at that moment. They're the person who's playing through Vizunah square, the guy going through Kryta, the person beating the crap out of some Kournan assholes.

When Anet created all these PvE skills they were targetted to one person and one person only: the people who whined and whined that they couldn't reach to X objective and who didn't want to learn other methods of success.

And the devs don't always know best. If ANet knew what they were doing, Dervs and Paragons would've remain nearly untouched at the release of Nightfall (they were overhauled).

And I'll say again: I don't mind making the game easier, just as long as it doesn't force others to have to gimp their play.

...In retrospect, I think this one post has been pretty much a repeat of what I've said quite a few times now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

The irony is that WoW will probably feature something similar to titles in WOTLK, which makes me sad.

Certainly not something like this? Lolz?

But I think it'd be WoW more ripping off of the 360 than GW. But it is all just a rumor, so we'll see.

thiagobnu · Jun 12, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

This game used to be unique, different and competetive.
It was also skill based, and it didn't base your potential on grind.

Ever since the game was diverted by it's producers, the game lost what was unique to it, and it went downhill because it was diverted from being a skill > time game, to being a time > skill game.

So true Tyla !
Skill based ... this supposed to be one of the pillars of GW.
No grinding ... this sucks the most.

To me ..... you guys dont know waht you're doing. You're aiming in
all directions .... and losing precious concepts you used to have.

Avarre · Jun 12, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

That doesn't cut for pve, to keep people playing the game, the new content is vital and the more new content, the more game loses balance as you know it.

New content does not need to include new skills and classes. It can include areas/quests/missions/items and so on. The relentless adding of classes and skills has a lot to do with balance issues, and that's a trap Guild Wars built itself into and didn't manage to escape.

Of course new skills and classes are fun, but let's be honest - a lot of new skills are repeats, the new classes are mainly overlaps, and there are a lot of Core/Prophecies skills that did not see use. Purposes for them could have been worked into new areas; a way to maximize the existing solid gameplay mechanics.

ANet built the expectation that each new release would come with more skills and classes. If new chapters had come with new continents without the new classes from the start, I seriously doubt sales figures would have been heavily affected. It might have also given more time for better development on the released chapters, since there's always room for improvement.

Bryant Again · Jun 12, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

Even if devs were all-knowing beings, the task of keeping game balanced and feeding it with new content could not be succesful.

The only new class WoW is adding, after quite a few years, is the DeathKnight. In that whole time they've stayed with the core classes, only adding a few skills in between, and still having PvE remain successful. I think this is definitely one of the things ANet learned with GW: New classes, while fun, can cause trouble. Focus and expand on what you've got and you can achieve the same amount of depth.

Edit: I'm only talking about PvE here, PvP in WoW is a whole other bag of beans.

felinette · Jun 12, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

I'm bored with PVE not because of the changes of making it EASIER, but, only because I've played the content and I've played it again an again and I just don't wish to play it anymore. It was definitely fun an entertaining while it lasted from day one to the final day I put my time into it.

Same here. I've exhausted the content and, at this point, would rather play other games than grind for titles. However, I'll definitely be back for GW2, and everyone I know who played GW is also looking forward to GW2. Yes, the GW PvE population is decreasing--there's no new content on the horizon and not everybody cares about filling their HoM. Perhaps some players have left over the issues described in the OP, but I think most just ran out of things to do that are enjoyable to them. I keep running into GW players in LotRO--every single one of them plans to check out GW2. We've moved on for now, but we'll be back! Since GW2 will be designed from the start with PvE in mind (as opposed to GW1, which was designed to be a PvP game, and thanks Anet for doing your darndest to work with what you had to satisfy a playerbase that turned out to be, probably to your surprise, very interested in PvE), I'm expecting to be blown away by this talented team when GW2 arrives--looking forward to it!

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 12, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

I think this quote can cover much of what I read here.

"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed, in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a wide-spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible." Bertrand Russell

Nessar · Jun 12, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

Same here. I've exhausted the content and, at this point, would rather play other games than grind for titles. However, I'll definitely be back for GW2, and everyone I know who played GW is also looking forward to GW2. Yes, the GW PvE population is decreasing--there's no new content on the horizon and not everybody cares about filling their HoM. Perhaps some players have left over the issues described in the OP, but I think most just ran out of things to do that are enjoyable to them. I keep running into GW players in LotRO--every single one of them plans to check out GW2. We've moved on for now, but we'll be back! Since GW2 will be designed from the start with PvE in mind (as opposed to GW1, which was designed to be a PvP game, and thanks Anet for doing your darndest to work with what you had to satisfy a playerbase that turned out to be, probably to your surprise, very interested in PvE). I'm expecting to be blown away by this talented team when GW2 arrives--looking forward to it!

QFT

Everyone I know that plays GW has done everything possible, but they have lost interest. But they will be back for GW2.
So Anet, you're not really losing players, it's just that people are bored and looking forward to GW2.

Avarre · Jun 12, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I think this quote can cover much of what I read here.

"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed, in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a wide-spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible." Bertrand Russell

Well then, I guess my 'minority view' is the most credible thing on the face of this earth.

That aside, I think we both know that applying a subjective viewpoint to something that is already subjective won't go anywhere.

Bryant Again · Jun 12, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I think this quote can cover much of what I read here.

"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed, in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a wide-spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible." Bertrand Russell

I sure hope that this doesn't mean to invalidate all player contributed discussion entirely? Because if that's the route that GW2 is going to go then we are screwed.

Allow me to pull an Avarre(©) here and quote myself:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yours Truly

Communities, especially for online games, are a central driving force in terms of game direction. A good example of this is WoW: Without the test realm and player input, large and often drastic changes of the game would drive through into the real and live version, and they're usually not perceived through open arms. If there was no protest regarding Life Tap, many Warlocks would be highly unhappy (not just a "waah i ain't op no more" but to a point that it voided warlock gear pointless). If raiders did not have a huge ass thread about T6 itemization, Stamina would've been absent from the high-end gear (which is vital for many classes). Regarding major community contributers, I believe every Warrior needs to hand Ciderhelm a major set of props, even going so far to own the domain of www.readthesticky.com.

To simply dismiss community work, be it from a major head or a voice altogether, is always going to lead into faulty waters. A large community is always the driving force of a game. It's just knowing who to listen to that can become difficult. But to simply ignore and dismiss *all* player feedback is a terrible decision.